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SEKAI HOLLAND INTERVIEW - Wednesday, 23rd July, 2008

TRANSCRIPT

As reported on numerous occasions - before, during and after the recent aborted election - Mugabe's henchmen literally battered the opposition. Morgan Tsvangirai's MDC, the Movement for Democratic Change, claim that at least 113 members have been killed. Back in March, the MDC won control of the parliament, but opted to boycott the run-off for president. One of the MDC officials who suffered a fearful beating at the hands of Mugabe's thugs was the Zimbabwean-born Sekai Holland. Well known in this country, Sekai was set upon by 16 men in a police station. She ended up with broken ribs, a broken leg, broken arm, a fractured knee as well as multiple bruises and lacerations. Not all that good at taking a backward step, Sekai Holland is back in Zimbabwe, still angry and still fighting. George Negus spoke to her by phone from Harare a few hours ago.

GEORGE NEGUS: Sekai, thanks very much for your time. Could I ask you, how would you describe your reaction to this week's apparent about-face by Morgan Tsvangirai, your party leader? I mean, were you shocked? Were you flabbergasted? Are you angry? How would you describe your own reaction, politically and personally?

SEKAI HOLLAND, MDC POLITICIAN: I think that Zimbabwe as a whole, everybody who is Zimbabwean, who is a Zimbabwe supporter, wants to give peace a chance. That is the mode we are in. So what our feelings are becomes irrelevant because we know that we are taking, as Tsvangirai says, the tentative steps to give peace a chance. That's what we are doing.

GEORGE NEGUS: When I spoke with Morgan Tsvangirai a few weeks ago with your help, he actually described the situation this way to me. He said, "This is not an election, this is a war. Robert Mugabe has declared war..."

SEKAI HOLLAND: Yes, it is still a war now. It is still a war now.

GEORGE NEGUS: I understand. I'd like to talk to you about that. But your leader said, "Robert Mugabe has declared war and we don't want to be a part of it." Now yesterday he says, "We want a better Zimbabwe." We'd all agree with that. "If we put our heads together, I am sure we can find a solution." So he's dealing with the sworn enemy.

SEKAI HOLLAND: There is nothing strange in the Zimbabwean situation when sworn enemies sit together. The thing is the environment in which we sit together. When Lancaster House took place, there was a cease-fire - we all know that - and that's the sign for everybody that the mood here's changed. There is no cease-fire now in Zimbabwe. The war continues - on the media, on the way we are treated, everywhere.

GEORGE NEGUS: So, Sekai, you have no problem with your leader sitting down, talking, shaking hands with, meeting with - being in the same room is almost an amazing thing for us looking on - you have no problem with him talking to this man Mugabe, who you believe has been responsible for violence, destruction, the demolition of your country's economy, the death of many, many people who oppose him? It's OK now for you and your leader to sit down and talk with him?

SEKAI HOLLAND: Everybody has a very serious problem looking at those images. We cry and we're really upset. But I'm saying to you there is something called the national interest, where how you feel becomes irrelevant.

GEORGE NEGUS: That must be really hard. As you say, you were in tears when you saw the two men shaking hands and signing a memorandum of agreement. That must be really, really difficult given what you've been through. You yourself have been beaten by his people.

SEKAI HOLLAND: We have three men, no women, so of course we wonder how the thing will come out for everybody. We have a serious problem with that. But I'm saying to you, the environment for talks Mugabe has not actually instituted. That is where the problem is. We are still hearing the stories around the country coming in, saying "This one has been found dead. This one has been abducted." It's like nothing has changed. But to make things worse, yesterday - the reason why I had to go into hiding is I got two phone calls from two women police officers, one asking me to go to the central police station. I say, "What the hell for?" She says, "They want your details." I say, "What for? "Where did you get my number? You must have my details!" And so I went into a panic attack on the phone and she said, "Why are you scared?" I said, "Because we've been tortured by women police officers of the Zimbabwe Republic." Police! Because I was tortured by four of them last year, which has given me hell. I put the phone down, another one rings and says, "Have you been speaking to Australia?" I said, "So what has that got to do with why you're looking for me?" I put the phone down and I ran away.

GEORGE NEGUS: Sekai, can I ask you this - given that experience alone, doesn't what Morgan Tsvangirai is doing, sitting down with Robert Mugabe, make a mockery? Isn't that an insult to those people who've risked their lives?

SEKAI HOLLAND: No, no, no, no, no, no. No, no, no, no, no. I think that this story I'm telling you, so that people outside - like the people inside - give peace a chance but keep the pressure on that we are serious about these talks, that we want change and want democracy in the country.

GEORGE NEGUS: Is Robert Mugabe part of any national unity plan? Is Robert Mugabe part of the solution or does he remain part of the problem? Can he be trusted?

SEKAI HOLLAND: The word trust in politics is a very fluid word. I don't think trust comes in. I think we need to have a set of rules and guidelines which we follow, and those that don't follow them fall out. So I think what we want to build now is a bridge to go from a dictatorship to democracy. We are really not worried about Mugabe the man. It is the culture he has built - the culture of impunity - that we must actually overcome as a society.

GEORGE NEGUS: If you and I were talking together in two weeks, do you seriously believe the situation will have altered? Or will Mugabe still be playing his power game - and you guys, including Morgan Tsvangirai, still left out in the cold?

SEKAI HOLLAND: I think that the two weeks that you say, when we heard the two weeks we burst out into laughter amid our tears...

GEORGE NEGUS: I don't blame you!

SEKAI HOLLAND: ..because it's a joke. But anyway, we will see what men can do in two weeks, because after all it is the men who are talking. We will see what they can do in two weeks.

GEORGE NEGUS: Sekai, it is good to talk to you. Stay safe, and I think most people would hope for the best for you and your country.

SEKAI HOLLAND: Thank you very much. It's good talking to you. 'Bye.