SEKAI HOLLAND INTERVIEW - Wednesday, 23rd July, 2008
TRANSCRIPT
As reported on numerous occasions - before, during and after the recent
aborted election - Mugabe's henchmen literally battered the opposition.
Morgan Tsvangirai's MDC, the Movement for Democratic Change, claim that
at least 113 members have been killed. Back in March, the MDC won
control of the parliament, but opted to boycott the run-off for
president. One of the MDC officials who suffered a fearful beating at
the hands of Mugabe's thugs was the Zimbabwean-born Sekai Holland. Well
known in this country, Sekai was set upon by 16 men in a police
station. She ended up with broken ribs, a broken leg, broken arm, a
fractured knee as well as multiple bruises and lacerations. Not all
that good at taking a backward step, Sekai Holland is back in Zimbabwe,
still angry and still fighting. George Negus spoke to her by phone from
Harare a few hours ago.
GEORGE NEGUS: Sekai, thanks very much for your time. Could I
ask you,
how would you describe your reaction to this week's apparent about-face
by Morgan Tsvangirai, your party leader? I mean, were you shocked? Were
you flabbergasted? Are you angry? How would you describe your own
reaction, politically and personally?
SEKAI HOLLAND, MDC POLITICIAN: I think that Zimbabwe as a
whole,
everybody who is Zimbabwean, who is a Zimbabwe supporter, wants to give
peace a chance. That is the mode we are in. So what our feelings are
becomes irrelevant because we know that we are taking, as Tsvangirai
says, the tentative steps to give peace a chance. That's what we are
doing.
GEORGE NEGUS: When I spoke with Morgan Tsvangirai a few weeks
ago with
your help, he actually described the situation this way to me. He said,
"This is not an election, this is a war. Robert Mugabe has declared
war..."
SEKAI HOLLAND: Yes, it is still a war now. It is still a war
now.
GEORGE NEGUS: I understand. I'd like to talk to you about
that. But
your leader said, "Robert Mugabe has declared war and we don't want to
be a part of it." Now yesterday he says, "We want a better Zimbabwe."
We'd all agree with that. "If we put our heads together, I am sure we
can find a solution." So he's dealing with the sworn enemy.
SEKAI HOLLAND: There is nothing strange in the Zimbabwean
situation
when sworn enemies sit together. The thing is the environment in which
we sit together. When Lancaster House took place, there was a
cease-fire - we all know that - and that's the sign for everybody that
the mood here's changed. There is no cease-fire now in Zimbabwe. The
war continues - on the media, on the way we are treated, everywhere.
GEORGE NEGUS: So, Sekai, you have no problem with your leader
sitting
down, talking, shaking hands with, meeting with - being in the same
room is almost an amazing thing for us looking on - you have no problem
with him talking to this man Mugabe, who you believe has been
responsible for violence, destruction, the demolition of your country's
economy, the death of many, many people who oppose him? It's OK now for
you and your leader to sit down and talk with him?
SEKAI HOLLAND: Everybody has a very serious problem looking at
those
images. We cry and we're really upset. But I'm saying to you there is
something called the national interest, where how you feel becomes
irrelevant.
GEORGE NEGUS: That must be really hard. As you say, you were
in tears
when you saw the two men shaking hands and signing a memorandum of
agreement. That must be really, really difficult given what you've been
through. You yourself have been beaten by his people.
SEKAI HOLLAND: We have three men, no women, so of course we
wonder how
the thing will come out for everybody. We have a serious problem with
that. But I'm saying to you, the environment for talks Mugabe has not
actually instituted. That is where the problem is. We are still hearing
the stories around the country coming in, saying "This one has been
found dead. This one has been abducted." It's like nothing has changed.
But to make things worse, yesterday - the reason why I had to go into
hiding is I got two phone calls from two women police officers, one
asking me to go to the central police station. I say, "What the hell
for?" She says, "They want your details." I say, "What for? "Where did
you get my number? You must have my details!" And so I went into a
panic attack on the phone and she said, "Why are you scared?" I said,
"Because we've been tortured by women police officers of the Zimbabwe
Republic." Police! Because I was tortured by four of them last year,
which has given me hell. I put the phone down, another one rings and
says, "Have you been speaking to Australia?" I said, "So what has that
got to do with why you're looking for me?" I put the phone down and I
ran away.
GEORGE NEGUS: Sekai, can I ask you this - given that
experience alone,
doesn't what Morgan Tsvangirai is doing, sitting down with Robert
Mugabe, make a mockery? Isn't that an insult to those people who've
risked their lives?
SEKAI HOLLAND: No, no, no, no, no, no. No, no, no, no, no. I
think that
this story I'm telling you, so that people outside - like the people
inside - give peace a chance but keep the pressure on that we are
serious about these talks, that we want change and want democracy in
the country.
GEORGE NEGUS: Is Robert Mugabe part of any national unity
plan? Is
Robert Mugabe part of the solution or does he remain part of the
problem? Can he be trusted?
SEKAI HOLLAND: The word trust in politics is a very fluid
word. I don't
think trust comes in. I think we need to have a set of rules and
guidelines which we follow, and those that don't follow them fall out.
So I think what we want to build now is a bridge to go from a
dictatorship to democracy. We are really not worried about Mugabe the
man. It is the culture he has built - the culture of impunity - that we
must actually overcome as a society.
GEORGE NEGUS: If you and I were talking together in two weeks,
do you
seriously believe the situation will have altered? Or will Mugabe still
be playing his power game - and you guys, including Morgan Tsvangirai,
still left out in the cold?
SEKAI HOLLAND: I think that the two weeks that you say, when
we heard
the two weeks we burst out into laughter amid our tears...
GEORGE NEGUS: I don't blame you!
SEKAI HOLLAND: ..because it's a joke. But anyway, we will see
what men
can do in two weeks, because after all it is the men who are talking.
We will see what they can do in two weeks.
GEORGE NEGUS: Sekai, it is good to talk to you. Stay safe, and
I think
most people would hope for the best for you and your country.
SEKAI HOLLAND: Thank you very much. It's good talking to you.
'Bye.