MORGAN TSVANGIRAI INTERVIEW - Wednesday 25th June, 2008
TRANSCRIPT
This week events have moved quickly and dramatically in Zimbabwe.
Opposition leader Morgan Tsvangirai has pulled out of this Friday's
run-off election against Robert Mugabe, on the grounds that he wasn't
prepared to risk the lives of his supporters any longer. Yesterday, the
UN Security Council passed a resolution condemning the violence in
Zimbabwe. And now, even some of Mugabe's former African allies are
turning away from the ageing dictator, including South Africa. However,
despite worldwide condemnation, Mugabe is determined to proceed with
the presidential poll, unopposed. Meanwhile, Morgan Tsvangirai has
raised the issue of peacekeepers. George Negus spoke by phone with the
MDC leader a short time ago from the Dutch embassy in Harare where
Morgan Tsvangirai is taking refuge.
GEORGE NEGUS: Mr Tsvangirai, could we clear up one thing. When
you
decided to pull out of the election, why did you also to go to the
Dutch embassy for refuge? Did you fear for your own life?
MORGAN TSVANGIRAI, ZIMBABWE OPPOSITION LEADER: What informed
our
decision to pull out is as outlined in our statement, but the
circumstances were almost impossible for us to have an election. For
example, three-quarters of the country we can't even deploy our own
polling agents - it's totally inaccessible. The army, the militia, the
war veterans, are making it almost inaccessible to go anywhere in the
country.
GEORGE NEGUS: So things have deteriorated so much in the last
few days
that you had to make this decision now and not before?
MORGAN TSVANGIRAI: Coming to the embassy was also informed by
the
possible reaction of the state to that decision and they were going to
round up all the leaders, including me. So we had to take extra
precaution, temporarily.
GEORGE NEGUS: The cynical reaction from the Mugabe people is
to suggest
that you're under no threat, that you've done this merely as a
theatrical action to attract the attention of the rest of the world -
there is not really a problem at all.
MORGAN TSVANGIRAI This is no joke. Over the last three or so
weeks, I
have been arrested, I have been harassed, I have been totally treated
like a criminal when I am the leading contender in this election.
GEORGE NEGUS: Certainly in the last 24-48 hours there has been
a
reaction from the rest of the world, a lot of condemnation of Robert
Mugabe and his regime. The UN have come out with a statement. Even the
South Africans, who have been reluctant to say much before have come
out condemning Mugabe. Is this politically beneficial to you? Will it
really lead to any change or, as he is saying, he is going to go ahead
on Friday anyway.
MORGAN TSVANGIRAI: First of all I think we need to applaud the
reaction
of the world. I think it is commendable that they took that unanimous
stand. It really reassures Zimbabweans who had been fighting this
repressive regime for all these years. As for his defiance that he will
go ahead with an election - what is an election? It is a one-man race -
I have pulled out. He can have his parting victory. So what? It is not
a solution to the problem our country is facing.
GEORGE NEGUS: I guess as an outsider, we know that scores of
your
people have been killed. The question has to be asked - how many more
of your people have to be killed? 600, 6,000, 60,000, before we hear
something other than words from the international community and we
actually see some action.
MORGAN TSVANGIRAI: What the world can do, it has already done.
They can
only at this point put diplomatic pressure - I don't think that
anything else would be feasible under the circumstances.
GEORGE NEGUS: Were you talking about armed peacekeepers to
keep the
factions apart? To keep your people and Mugabe's people apart so that
some sort of reconciliation or mediation could take place? You did term
them 'peacekeepers', even though you say all-out war is not the answer.
MORGAN TSVANGIRAI: We hope that something will come out that
will allow
for mediation and negotiations to take place between the parties
because an election is not a solution. We hope that only a negotiated
position will actually see this country come out of this crisis.
GEORGE NEGUS: Would you consider a government of national
unity with
Robert Mugabe, or is that totally out of the question?
MORGAN TSVANGIRAI: What we have to appreciate is that the
challenges
that we face are transitional challenges. We have to supplant this
crisis and allow for a period of national healing while the country can
recover from the economic disaster that we face. Whether Robert Mugabe
is there or not - we have offered to enter negotiations, but it has not
been put for us. I think one of the fundamental issues is the March
election result must be respected.
GEORGE NEGUS: Come the weekend, if Robert Mugabe goes ahead
with these
elections, as fraudulent as people think they are, and declares himself
the President of Zimbabwe all over again, where does that leave you and
for that matter of the rest of us?
MORGAN TSVANGIRAI: Well, where does that leave the country?
GEORGE NEGUS: Yes.
MORGAN TSVANGIRAI: At a dead end, let me say that it's not an
election.
If he goes into the process of an election, it is not an election. This
is not an election - it is war. Robert Mugabe has declared war and we
don't want to be part of it.
GEORGE NEGUS: If the other leaders of Africa, particularly
South
Africa, were to say to him, "it is time for you to go", would he go?
MORGAN TSVANGIRAI: I don't know because he has always
maintained a
position that he doesn't want interference. The world is now watching
him butcher his own people. The man is liable for the violence and if
the whole world has condemned him and the other African leaders say,
"this is the end of the game", I don't think that he will proceed.
GEORGE NEGUS: Mr Tsvangirai, before we leave you, how long do
you think
you will be at the embassy? When do you plan to leave the embassy and
get yourself back onto the streets of Harare and the country again?
MORGAN TSVANGIRAI: I am evaluating my circumstances and when
it is
feasible I will go out.
GEORGE NEGUS: It's good to talk to you again and it is a silly
thing to
say, but try to stay safe.
MORGAN TSVANGIRAI: Thank you.
GEORGE NEGUS: Morgan Tsvangirai from inside the Dutch embassy
in
Harare.