WINSTON PETERS INTERVIEW - Wednesday 17th May, 2006
GEORGE NEGUS: Mr Peters, thanks for giving us your time. We
have just
seen a wrap-up of the tumultuous events in the Solomons over the past
few weeks. How would you describe the role of RAMSI? I imagine it's
going to be discussed this weekend in Honiara when you and Alexander
Downer meet with the other Pacific Island leaders. Do you think that
RAMSI should be staying there with an open-ended arrangement, or is
there a limit to the role it can play? Because some people actually see
it as a form of neo-colonialism.
WINSTON PETERS, NEW ZEALAND FOREIGN MINISTER: Well, I don't
believe for
a moment it is a form of neo-colonialism. What it was designed to do,
at the request of the Solomon Island authorities, was to help in
assisting the Solomon Islands people and government to have political
and economic stability.
In that sense all of these programs nevertheless have parameters and
have boundaries, outside which we can't go, and they have a purpose.
And it's those things that we need to discuss with the new Government
and a new Prime Minister because when the Solomon Islands parliament
meets in late June or July, one of the things that we will be asking
for is an endorsement of RAMSI into the future. And that's important.
GEORGE NEGUS: Do you think that the arrangement should have a
time
limit to it now? Is it possible say how long RAMSI should stay there?
WINSTON PETERS: It's too early to say right now, in May 2006,
how long
RAMSI should stay there but we will get a better steer on the ground.
We've also got a significant aid programs in the Solomon Islands so
there is a lot at stake here. And I like to take the positive view that
we can enter a constructive dialogue with a long-term purpose and that
is an improved, stable society in the Solomon Islands where there is an
acceptance of democratic procedures and acceptance of sound governance.
GEORGE NEGUS: And about the broader view - there are those
that suggest
the involvement of countries like yours and Australia in RAMSI is a
countervailing force to China's growing influence and interest in the
Pacific.
WINSTON PETERS: Well, there are other nations who are engaged
in
certain parts of the Pacific for reasons to do with their own national
self-interest. And we are seeking, as a country, to engage them in a
joint approach on these issues of Pacific aid, Pacific development,
rather than people going in nations going there in a different way.
That will take some time. Our job is not made easier by some of the
engagements in the Pacific of other nations but it is all part and
parcel of the diplomatic process.
GEORGE NEGUS: Mr Peters, can we talk to you about New Zealand
politics
for a moment? It's not often we get chance to talk to someone of your
status. It is a pretty unusual situation where you as the Foreign
Minister are not a member of the Cabinet. You are almost a Minister
with and without portfolio. I mean, it's fairly unique in the world.
It's almost as unique as underarm bowling, if I could put it that way.
WINSTON PETERS: There's no comparison to that at all. Bear in
mind that
the most powerful nation on earth has a very similar construction. My
counterpart in the United States, Condoleezza Rice, is not a
congressman, is not a senator.
Number one, I've been in Parliament longer than anyone else in New
Zealand.
Number two, I'm the leader of the third biggest political party. Number
three, I have been interested in foreign affairs and taken an interest
for a long, long time.
And number four, the key component of this arrangement is long-term
stability for the Government so that when people elect a government
they can be guaranteed it will run the full three-year term.
GEORGE NEGUS: Can I put it to you this bluntly - would Helen
Clark be
the Prime Minister of New Zealand at the moment if she hadn't agreed to
make you foreign minister?
WINSTON PETERS: Well, I don't like to talk in those terms.
GEORGE NEGUS: She didn't have the numbers without you.
WINSTON PETERS: Well, is true to say when all the cards were
counted
up, we might not have had very many cards but we had all the right
cards.
GEORGE NEGUS: You were able to hold the proverbial political
gun at her
head.
WINSTON PETERS: o. I was asked by her to change the stance
that we had
pre-election, as I was asked by the leader of the opposition party -
Nationals - to do likewise. Our position was that we did not intend to
go into government with either Labour or Nationals because we thought
their policies were too different to ours. They both asked me and my
party caucus and my party to change that stance and to become actively
engaged.
GEORGE NEGUS: Seeing as I've got you, I have got to ask you
this. Did
you actually say about Helen Clark that she was - previously - "The
only politician in the Western world, who can talk on foreign affairs
with both feet in her mouth. Now due to her brilliant performance New
Zealand is now a staunch ally of possibly France."? Now are we being
facetious? That's a pretty nasty crack.
WINSTON PETERS: Let me say that was some considerable time
ago. And in
politics you'd be amazed how quickly people learn.
GEORGE NEGUS: Even Helen Clark, you could say?
WINSTON PETERS: No, no I'm not...I'm not saying who I'm saying
it
about.
GEORGE NEGUS: Or you.
WINSTON PETERS: But you know I've had this thrown up at me,
"Look, 20
years ago you said this, 10 years ago you said that." And my answer to
that is well, that was then and now is now.
GEORGE NEGUS: Can I ask you, you would no doubt be aware of
Australia's
strained relations at the moment with Indonesia over political
asylum-seekers from West Papua. What are your relations with Indonesia
like compared to ours at the moment?
WINSTON PETERS: Well, our relationship has been an improved
one,
particularly under the present administration. Indonesia is an awfully
complex, huge population country. It's the biggest Islamic country in
the world. And they have huge, very, very complex difficulties. But our
relations have improved with Indonesia. And I would have thought
Australia's had as well. Sure, you've got this immigration problem but
it's not something that Australia has invited upon itself. People come
out of the blue one day in a boat and you've got to somehow deal with
it.
GEORGE NEGUS: What would you do, for instance, you and your
immigration
minister do if a boatload of West Papuans was to arrive, say, in the
Bay of Islands, how would you react? Would you take them in or send
them back or process them offshore? What would you do?
WINSTON PETERS: They would be processed as to their legitimacy
of an
application for asylum.
GEORGE NEGUS: But you would let them in?
WINSTON PETERS: Letting them in, yes, but - B - allowing them
to stay
would be a different matter. And remember, every time someone comes in
this form that's one less person on the genuine lists of refugee or
asylum-seeking repatriations who is denied a chance. And that's the
unfairness of it all.
GEORGE NEGUS: You have described your own Government's
immigration
policy as lax in the past. In fact you said on one occasion, "We are
being dragged into the status of an Asian colony, we have now reached
the point where you can wander down Queen Street in Auckland and wonder
if you're still in New Zealand or some other country." How do you feel
at the moment about Asian immigration into your country - political
asylum-seekers or otherwise?
WINSTON PETERS: Let me tell you this, we have a full,
comprehensive
review of New Zealand immigration laws and policies going on as we
speak as a result of the confidence and supply agreement with the
present Government. So we will have much more focused and relevant laws
in the future that have regard to New Zealand's economic and social
needs, our scientific needs, our education and medical needs. And it is
in that vein of thinking that this review is relying on.
GEORGE NEGUS: Otherwise you do fear that New Zealand would
become an
Asian colony, as you put it?
WINSTON PETERS: Look, the way that the immigration numbers
were
building up that was not only a prediction just made by me, it was made
by one of our leading economists - Gareth Morgan. Now all that has
changed - so the quote was relevant to that time, it is not relevant
today because there has been a significant switch and change in the
numbers coming from various countries. And I think that there is
acceptance that that was a sound policy on our behalf.
GEORGE NEGUS: Mr Peters, before you go, Australia has been
accused or
described as playing the deputy sheriff in the Pacific, rightly or
wrongly. George Bush seems to think that's OK, he regards John Howard
as a regional leader. Where does that leave New Zealand - as Deputy
Dog, if you'll pardon the expression? Where do you fit into all of this
if Australia sees itself as the deputy sheriff to the United States in
the Pacific?
WINSTON PETERS: Well, let me just say this that there are no
two
nations on earth that have the close, friendly relationship that
Australia and New Zealand share. Where does that put us? Well, we have
not been described as that of. It was as though in the situation of
ensuring that we are an extremely responsible and good neighbour in the
Pacific. We put our best efforts and best resources into the needs of
the people on the ground, and locally the indigenous people of those
islands. And we will go on doing that. And I think that's the way we're
accepted by the various island nations as a country that is there for
their interests, not our own.
GEORGE NEGUS: So you say relations between Australia and New
Zealand
off the sporting field are always going to be better than on the
sporting field. Thank you, Mr Peters, for giving us your time.
WINSTON PETERS: Thank you.