PROFESSOR HUGH WHITE INTERVIEW - Wednesday 25th October, 2006
GEORGE NEGUS: Professor, on the face of it, it would appear
that this
week at the Pacific Islands Forum has been a good one for John Howard,
you could say that he had a victory. But is it as simple as that?
Because those angry, antagonistic rumblings are still coming from the
likes of Michael Somare and Prime Minister Sogavare from the Solomons.
PROFESSOR HUGH WHITE, AUSTRALIAN NATIONAL UNIVERSITY: Yeah, I
think
that's right, George. I would score it, at best, a draw. I think
Sogavare went to the forum wanting to make a few points. He didn't get
everything he wanted but he got a fair bit of it. Howard, I think,
managed to fight off his attack to a certain extent. But even if you
score it a draw, it is still a loss for Australia and it is still a
loss for the Solomons because what we have seen…
GEORGE NEGUS: Why is that, Hugh?
PROFESSOR HUGH WHITE: What we're seeing is an undermining of
the basis
of trust which is essential if the RAMSI project is to succeed. It is
unprecedented, almost, internationally for Australia to play the kind
of leading role we are playing in this very intense engagement in the
internal affairs of the Solomons. And if there isn't a better
relationship of trust between the Solomon Islands Government and the
Australian Government, it is very hard to see how this can work. And I
don't think anything we have seen over the last few days out of Fiji
has given us any confidence that that bilateral relationship is getting
back on the rails.
GEORGE NEGUS: How would you describe, and we toss the term
RAMSI around
as though we really know what it means. But how would you describe what
RAMSI is supposed to be doing in the Solomon Islands?
PROFESSOR HUGH WHITE: Very important question. There are two
parts to
it really. The first thing RAMSI was meant to be doing when it went in
initially, back in 2003, was to suppress the violence, particularly in
Honiara, which had sort of pulled the Solomons apart as a country. But
after that, the really big, long-term, important job was to get right
in there and try and rebuild the Solomon Islands' political and
government institutions. What we had there was a state which had
virtually ceased to function, and what Australia and the other partners
in RAMSI set out to do was to help the Solomons actually rebuild their
government almost from the ground up. Now, that is a very intimate,
engaged process and if you don't have the trust of the people who are
running the government you're trying to rebuild, it is very hard to see
how you're going to get anywhere. I think we've lost that.
GEORGE NEGUS: Mark Davis, our reporter, has been speaking to
Prime
Minister Sogavare and he said this about RAMSI - "If they push us too
far," meaning Australia, I presume, "we lose nothing by repealing the
Act that governs the presence of RAMSI in the Solomon Islands. We lose
nothing, mate." In other words he wants to see the back end of them. Do
you think it would come to that?
PROFESSOR HUGH WHITE: Look, it could come to that. Sogavare is
a pretty
confrontational character. I think in some ways he has behaved pretty
irresponsibly about some of this stuff. But the Government here in
Canberra, I think, has been assuming that whatever happens, RAMSI won't
be thrown out of the Solomons because it is too important to them. I
think that is too complacent. I think there is a chance if this thing
isn't managed a good deal better than we've seen over the last few
months and the last few days that RAMSI will be thrown out of the
Solomons. And I think Sogavare's comment you just quoted demonstrates
his willingness to go that far.
GEORGE NEGUS: Words like, or adjectives like 'arrogant',
'insulting',
'patronising' have been used by people like Michael Somare, Sir Michael
Somare. How would you describe Australia's behaviour in this whole
episode?
PROFESSOR HUGH WHITE: I certainly think the kind of conduct we
have
seen in the relationship between Australia and the Solomons and between
Australia and PNG over the last few weeks has been pretty
unsatisfactory. I think there has been an element of arrogance and
arbitrariness
about it. Mind you, I think there has been some fairly unsatisfactory
conduct on the other side as well. I think that both sides carry some
of the blame. The disappointing thing is that in order to make
something like RAMSI work - and for that matter John Howard's broader
vision of Australia's new, more engaged role in the South Pacific - we
need to move past that kind of old stuff, the kind of accusations of
neocolonialism which have been around for so long. And I think the
problem with the way our government has handled this whole affair with
Moti over the last few weeks has been it has drawn us back to that bad
old era of the petty, confrontational questions over issues which are
in themselves pretty irrelevant.
GEORGE NEGUS: It is a heck of a mess. How widespread do you
think this
disgruntled attitude towards Australia is concerned? How much the
disenchantment is there with this country from other Pacific Island
leaders?
PROFESSOR HUGH WHITE: I think there is a level of
dissatisfaction, you
can see that coming out of the forum, with the way in which this issue
in particular has been handled. I think that it is against the
background of a lot of respect for what Australia has been trying to do
in RAMSI. I think Australia has got some brownie points for trying to
take on the very tough challenges in the Solomons. But the way in which
this issue has been handled over the last little while, and some
disappointment about the way RAMSI has been performing more broadly,
has helped to undermine those positive messages. And I think we saw
that coming out of Suva. The other thing, of course, is that there is a
lot of disappointment in the forum, in amongst the Pacific Island
countries about the way Australia is approaching the broader agenda of
political reform in the South Pacific. They still hear a lot of
lectures. But what they don't see is Australia stepping up on key
issues like labour mobility. They're all very keen to see provision
made for Pacific Islanders to be able to come and work in Australia on
short-term working visas. New Zealand just today has announced an
expansion of their scheme. I think there's a lot of disappointment that
Australia hasn't been prepared to step up to the plate on that sort of
issue.
GEORGE NEGUS: Finally, Hugh, as a professional observer of the
situation, what would you give Australia out of 10 in its performance
as a Pacific leader?
PROFESSOR HUGH WHITE: I would give us something like 8 out of
10 for
the vision of RAMSI and I would give it something like 3 out of 10, at
best, for the implementation of RAMSI so far. And 1 out of 10 for
diplomacy over the last few weeks.
GEORGE NEGUS: 1 out of 10? Being very generous with the
diplomacy.
PROFESSOR HUGH WHITE: I'm being very generous.
GEORGE NEGUS: Hugh, good to talk to you. Thanks very much for
your
time.
PROFESSOR HUGH WHITE: My pleasure as always.