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MARTIN WALKER INTERVIEW - Wednesday 8th November, 2006

GEORGE NEGUS: Martin, thanks for your time because I realise it's pretty late in the day where you are, in Washington. How do you read the numbers at the moment? As we hear it here, the Democrats have in fact taken the House but line ball, to say the least, in the Senate.

MARTIN WALKER, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, UNITED PRESS INTERNATIONAL: That's right. The Democrats will have a majority in the House of about 10 seats, with a total gain of about 25 seats. In the Senate, they're going to lose winning majority by the skin of their teeth. They are going to have, I think, 49...48, 49 seats in the Senate. If they snatch the very last one, with a re-count in Virginia, it will be 50-50, and at that point, Dick Cheney as the Vice-President can have the casting vote so the Republicans will maintain control. It is going to be divided government.

GEORGE NEGUS: There was a lot of talk, of course, in the run-up to these polls of a landslide, a blue wave of votes for the Democrats. Has it been the overwhelming shift in power that people were suggesting it might be.

MARTIN WALKER: On the numbers, no. It has been a wave but not a tidal wave. But what we have seen has been kind of the irresistible force of Democratic anger and anti-Iraq anger and anti-Bushism meeting the immovable object of the way the Republicans have engineered something close to a permanent majority for themselves by redrawing constituencies, by putting in strong incumbents and by putting in waves of money. Even in places where the Democrats won, they were winning against a tidal wave of money. In Pennsylvania, for example, the conservative Republican, Rick Santorum, he spent $28 million, his opponent spent $14 million, Santorum still lost. So the Republicans, with all of this kind of in-built advantage, and a massive get-up-the-vote operation, they really should have done better than they did. So, in a sense, it is a testimony to the amount of anger that there was that the Republicans have lost the control they have enjoyed the last 12 years.

GEORGE NEGUS: They certainly got a fright. But what about the suggestion that people like yourself and others were making in the lead-up, that this amounted to a referendum on George W. Bush himself and particularly the situation in Iraq?

MARTIN WALKER: I think Bush and Iraq have been the overwhelming issues. There have been states, there have been areas where there have been other massive issues. Stem cell research has been the big factor in Missouri, for example. But, yes, it has really been about Iraq. The irony is that despite this election result, not much is going to change in Iraq. The Democrats do not have an alternative policy. There is no consensus in the Democratic Party, nor in the country. Like the Bush White House, the Democrats are waiting for this report to come out from the 'wise men' group, led by Jim Baker and Lee Hamilton, to come up with other options. But there will be no dramatic change led by the House on Iraq policy. They're not going to withhold the money, that is for sure.

GEORGE NEGUS: So no dramatic announcement of an exit policy this year, next year or whatever? You think it is business as usual so far as Iraq is concerned, despite the antagonism towards the policy.

MARTIN WALKER: The Democrats have it in their political interests right now to keep the current team in office in Washington. That means to keep Rumsfeld in place and to have him up regularly being interrogated, being embarrassed, being shown up by Democratic congressmen in open hearings. They would rather keep Bush, Rumsfeld, Cheney in place because that's the team they want to run against in 2008. After all, this is the first day, right now, of the 2008 presidential campaign.

GEORGE NEGUS: That being the case, what does this result mean to the Democrats and people like Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama. Does this mean that they have had to move to the right, as it were, to even get this close?

MARTIN WALKER: It does. I mean, this is going to be a much more conservative Democratic Party. The new congressmen that they have got elected that were recruited carefully by Rahm Emmanuel to appeal to centrist, even centre-right voters they tend to be ex-military people, they tend to be born-again religious people. Some of them wouldn't even campaign on Sundays, they were so religious. So this is a different kind of Democratic congressmen, congresswoman that is coming in now. Now, for Hillary Clinton, who has won overwhelmingly - 69% of the vote in New York - what this means for her is that her attempt to reposition herself as a centrist has been terribly important. What this means for Barack Obama, it is a problem. After all, the other attractive African American candidate, Harold Ford, has been defeated in the Tennessee race because, as always happens, people lie to pollsters about black candidates. Black candidates always get about 5% fewer votes than the polls say they will because people don't want to give pollsters the impression that they might be racist. That's a problem for Barack Obama.

The biggest single impact of this entire election, George, is going to be nothing to do with Iraq, it's going to be on world trade. There is now a protectionist majority in this Democratic Party in the House. The Doha Round of the World Trade Organisation, forget it, it is over, it is dead.


GEORGE NEGUS: Martin, roll on 2008. And that sounds like another interview another time to me. But thanks again.