GEORGE SOROS INTERVIEW- Wednesday 25th April, 2007
GEORGE NEGUS: Mr Soros, you have a habit as one of the 80
richest men
in the world for putting your money where your mouth is, literally.
Tell me if I'm wrong - I mean, looking at the maths, worth $8.5
billion. Is that a reasonable figure?
GEORGE SOROS,PHILANTHROPIST AND POLITICAL ACTIVIST: I don't
discuss
that.
GEORGE NEGUS: You've stopped counting.
GEORGE SOROS: No, I don't...those are guesses.
GEORGE NEGUS: But how much of your wealth do you use
philanthropically
- in a highly political philanthropic way, I have to say?
GEORGE SOROS: My foundation went from $3 million to $600
million a year
in a very short period of time at the time of the demise of the Soviet
Empire, then it stabilised around $400 million, and now it is again
rising because I would like to spend more of it while I'm around.
GEORGE NEGUS: To some people there is a contradiction in
terms. For
somebody who has been described as even a left-wing billionaire, a
liberal philanthropist, how do you justify, if you like, making money
out of the system that you find is flawed to "try and save the world"
or make the world a better, more open place?
GEORGE SOROS: Well, you see, I have a very well developed
philosophy of
the open society which is based on the recognition that all human
constructs are flawed and you cannot have perfection, but you can
improve conditions, so the fact that the system is flawed doesn't make
me an enemy of the system. I would like to make it better.
GEORGE NEGUS: But it's not a double standard in any way, as
you see it,
anyway.
GEORGE SOROS: No, not at all. There is no conflict at all.
GEORGE NEGUS: But your critics, your critics are quite savage.
GEORGE SOROS: Well, of course. You know by adopting a number
of causes
that other people espouse, naturally they attack me, so this is
actually one of the unfortunate side effects of my activity because I
have taken on perhaps too many causes.
GEORGE NEGUS: How do you wear descriptions like I have just
given you?
How do you describe George Soros yourself?
GEORGE SOROS: Well, I would say that I am a flawed person who
is trying
to, nevertheless
GEORGE NEGUS: A very wealthy flawed person who can afford to
make
mistakes, I guess.
GEORGE SOROS: Well, but I try to correct my mistakes, if I can.
GEORGE NEGUS: You've been particularly critical of the United
States of
America in the context of world conflict, etc.
GEORGE SOROS: No mainly of the Bush Administration.
GEORGE NEGUS: Of the Bush Administration, certainly. In the
last
election in America you put $25 million, as I understand it, to groups
that were opposed to the Bush Administration
GEORGE SOROS: A little more.
GEORGE NEGUS: and you failed.
GEORGE SOROS: Yes.
GEORGE NEGUS: Why did it not work? I mean, $25 million is a
lot of
money.
GEORGE SOROS: Well, it just shows you that you can't buy
elections.
GEORGE NEGUS: And people were accusing you of having bought
the
Democratic Party.
GEORGE SOROS: Well, that, of course, is not true, but I really
believed
at that time that the greatest benefit to humanity would be if one
could remove Bush from the White House in '04. And I am afraid that
what has happened since has worn me out, regrettably.
GEORGE NEGUS: What about on this occasion? This year we're
looking or
next year we're looking at an election in the United States. Are you
going to throw lots of George Soros money at the Democratic cause or
the anti-Republican cause?
GEORGE SOROS: No, no, no. I will still be very engaged because
I think
America is still the leading force, country, in the world.
GEORGE NEGUS: With all its flaws.
GEORGE SOROS: With all its faults. And therefore it's terribly
important what happens in America. I support Barack Obama for
Democratic candidate.
GEORGE NEGUS: Why is that?
GEORGE SOROS: Because I think it's a fresh voice. I think he
doesn't
carry the baggage of the failed policies that is bogging down this
country. You see, I think that America went wrong with the war on
terror and basically the Democrats also bought into that concept.
GEORGE NEGUS: Do you include Hillary Clinton in that?
GEORGE SOROS: To some extent, yes, although I would be very
happy
having Hillary as a president, but I'm afraid that she did buy into it
and it does colour her.
GEORGE NEGUS: Because when George Bush goes - and he has to go
- he's
not running for election again - the neo-cons who you're so worried
about, who regard as adopting a crude form of social Darwinism, I
think. They will still be around causing trouble.
GEORGE SOROS: I think they are demoralised. I think they are
disintegrated. The neo-cons are, in my book, finished.
GEORGE NEGUS: Is the great irony or the great paradox where
George
Soros is concerned that, because you're so wealthy, people may find it
difficult to take you seriously? This bloke can bloke can afford, this
guy can afford to take these stands the rest of us can't.
GEORGE SOROS: Well, there is this stereotype of the rich man,
who,
because he is rich, he thinks he is clever, or he is wise, and so I
have to live with that.
EORGE NEGUS: Do you think that you are clever and wise?
GEORGE SOROS: I do, actually. I think that I may be an
exception.
GEORGE NEGUS: Well, you are an exception in so many ways.
There aren't
that many people who have as strong political views and convictions as
you do.
GEORGE SOROS: You know, it goes back to my background because
I lived
through Nazi occupation. Being Jewish I was 13 years old when the Nazis
came in. If my father hadn't understood what it was all about, I
wouldn't be alive, so surviving that experience was a formative thing
for me. 1944 was when my character was formed and it was that
experience that led me to the philosophy of Carl Popper and the
fallibility and open society. And actually those ideas are the ones
that allowed me to make a lot of money, because instead of believing
that markets tend towards equilibrium, I realised that's based on the
assumption of perfect knowledge, which is nonsense.
GEORGE NEGUS: You are quite happy to play the markets that
could be
responsible for a lot of the injustices in the world that you would
disagree with.
GEORGE SOROS: Well, my not playing the markets would correct
those
injustices? I mean, this is a kind of force, a kind of morality. No
individual anonymous participant can influence the prices and therefore
you really can speculate in the market without paying attention to
morality. That's one of the positive features of markets. That's why
they function
GEORGE NEGUS: They're amoral.
GEORGE SOROS: They are amoral - they're not immoral.
GEORGE NEGUS: You've been called the world's greatest money
changer,
but you've also been accused by your critics of being an economic war
criminal, in fact - somebody who caused the collapse of markets in the
UK, Eastern Europe and even Thailand. Did you feel any responsibility
for your activity in those markets?
GEORGE SOROS: None whatsoever, because if I hadn't been born,
I think
that the sterling would have left the exchange rate mechanism.
GEORGE NEGUS: People think you have got more power than you
really have
financially.
GEORGE SOROS: No, you see I was successful there, but I was
successful
because I read the market right. There is no way that I could have
imposed my will on the market.
GEORGE NEGUS: Can I ask you about our country, Australia?
We're a
member of the coalition of the willing. Do you ever think about
Australia at all? Does it cross your mind?
GEORGE SOROS: A little, occasionally, and I don't really like
the
current political leadership in Australia. I don't like the way they
treated the refugees and also I don't like them being that closely
associated with Bush.
GEORGE NEGUS: What would your gratuitous advice be to
Australia?
GEORGE SOROS: Change the government.
GEORGE NEGUS: Or remain neutral in international affairs? Is
that an
answer?
GEORGE SOROS: No, no, no, no, I think Australia, for instance,
intervened in East Timor as part of the UN. You might say they
shouldn't have been leading it, one could argue, but I'm glad that they
did participate because they did save lives, I think.
GEORGE NEGUS: Is it possible to say that the existence of
groups like
the International Crisis Group and your various foundations and your
Open Society Foundation are by definition a criticism of the UN, that
the UN is not doing its job?
GEORGE SOROS: The UN one has to understand the UN is an
association of
states and states have interests but no principles. Sovereign states
always put their sovereign interests ahead of the common interests. And
the common interest of humanity needs advocates and I think you might
consider the ICG and they are advocates, the open society foundations
are advocates in that sense. And that I think is tremendously important
to keep governments honest, so actually keep governments accountable is
the function of civil society. And that is what my foundations are
designed to support.
GEORGE NEGUS: You do have an agenda which suggests that, over
the years
remaining, that you will slowly but surely deliberately spend your
money, give your money to causes that you believe in, continue to be a
philanthropist until maybe you've only got your daily spending left for
yourself?
GEORGE SOROS: My original intention was to spend the money in
my
lifetime. I now have modified it because I have found this niche for
the foundation, namely help civil society to hold governments
accountable. And that is a mission that needs to be supported and the
foundation can do it without me, so actually the foundation will
survive me.
GEORGE NEGUS: Beyond George Soros himself.
GEORGE SOROS: Yes.
GEORGE NEGUS: Thank you very much for your time. Great to chat
to you.