ROBERT REICH INTERVIEW - Wednesday 22nd August, 2007
ROBERT REICH, FORMER US LABOR SECRETARY: In my view, George,
is that
the history will record this as a terrible, terrible tragedy - an
unmitigated disaster. We should have never gone into Iraq. We are
actually creating more terrorism by being there than we would have been
not going there. But, ah - and I think that it has become a political
issue in America partly because of the loss of life on both sides, but
also partly because America understands or is beginning to understand
how utterly wrong-headed this entire operation was from the beginning.
Even the Republican candidates are distancing themselves from George
Bush. Even Republicans in the Senate and the House who are not
candidates for president, but know they will have to face voters in
re-election contests are also distancing themselves from George W.
Bush. The President continues to believe that he is right. He, despite
every signal, every indication to the contrary and feels that history,
ultimately, will vindicate him. Well, we can't know in advance what
history is going to say, but I would be utterly amazed and surprised if
this entire adventure, this entire Iraqi invasion from the beginning of
its inception, were not judged to be an utter failure and a terrible,
terrible thing for the world.
GEORGE NEGUS: Professor, you were a key player in the Clinton
administration, your a close friend, as I understand, of both Bill and
Hillary. Have you decided which of the Democrat candidates you will
back next year in 2008?
ROBERT REICH: Well, George, I'm not officially or even
unofficially
backing any candidate. It's a little bit too early. But, it seems to me
that we are blessed, as Democrats, in the United States, with three
very, very attractive candidates. Hillary Clinton has a great deal of
experience. I know her well. I know her since she's she was an
undergraduate in college when she was 20 years old. Barack Obama has
been able to captivate large numbers of young Americans, inspire them.
I haven't seen this degree of excitement in this since Robert Kennedy
ran for president, quite frankly. And John Edwards has come up with a
set of specific policies on health care, on Iraq, on a whole gamut of
issues that I find the most attractive of all the candidates. So we
have an embarrassment of riches on the Democratic side. On the
Republican side, let me try not to be partisan or biased, but I think
the republicans have not yet figured out how they are going to conduct
this election, who they are going to support. They seem to be in
complete disarray.
GEORGE NEGUS: What difference do you think it would make to
America's
reputation in the world - to its moral authority, if you like, if there
was a Democrat, not a Republican in the White House?
ROBERT REICH; I can tell you one thing if Al Gore, who won the
popular
vote, as you know, in 2000, had been president, I doubt very much
whether we would be in Iraq at this moment. I doubt very much whether
world public opinion would be so counter to the United States. I doubt
that America's standing in the world would have plummeted to this low
point. You know, George W. Bush has almost single-handedly lost America
whatever moral authority, positive standing ...
GEORGE NEGUS: How do you begin to restore that?
ROBERT REICH: I'm sorry?
GEORGE NEGUS: How do you begin to restore that moral authority?
ROBERT REICH: Well, it's going to take years to regain the
moral
authority. It's not something you can just snap your fingers son and
say "Well, we have it back." no. America's reputation is tarnished. We
are the world's bully in the eyes of many people around the world. We,
by acting unilaterally, by not waiting for the United Nations, by
coming up with this notion of preventive war, this go-it-alone attitude
on behalf of the United States has cost us dearly. And I'm not the only
one to say this. This is now the predominant view in the Democratic
Party, and also among many Republicans in America.
GEORGE NEGUS: Professor, a big issue right now in America is
the
sub-prime debt crisis in America's housing bubble. How worried should
we be as members of the global community about the state of the
American economy right now?
ROBERT REICH: Well, there's reason to be somewhat worried.
When Bill
Clinton left office, there was a $5 trillion, 10-year surplus. George
Bush has turned it around to a $5 trillion deficit over 10 years.
America is deep in debt. Mostly to the Chinese and the Japanese to the
tune of $2 billion a day. And then on top of all of this, you have a
lack of regulation, you have sub-prime loans that should never have
been made. The banking and credit industry as a whole has and is
suffering a huge blow-up, a kind of a bubble bursting that is being
felt around the world. It's a world financial market, so when America
is acting irresponsibly, the rest of the world feels it. So I think
there is reason to be concern. I don't think we will have a depression.
Will America go into recession later this year? I think the probability
- my view - is that it's slightly better than 50-50.
GEORGE NEGUS: Not known for exactly mincing your words, you
said under
George Bush that everything had gone upside down. In fact, the economy,
you said, has gone to shit. Which I am sure is a technical term.
ROBERT REICH: It's a complicated economic term taught in
economic
schools.
GEORGE NEGUS: Right now in your country, which I saw recently
described
as the richest 1% of Americans control something like 20% of national
income. Are Americans bother by the fact that 37 million of their own
people are living in poverty, and the rest of the world looks at them
as being unjust as a result of that.
ROBERT REICH: Americans have a great tolerance for inequality.
So many
Americans think that one day, they are going to be rich. The degree of
inequality we are now seeing, with so much of the national wealth going
to the top 1%, has caused inequality suddenly to become a political
issue in this campaign for the first time in years, we're seeing
candidates talk about and worry about the degree of inequality. And
partly that's been driven, George, by the fact that median wages in the
United States have been flat, they have not been keeping up with
inflation, while housing values have actually been declining. So people
are now getting a little anxious and they're saying "I'm working harder
than ever. The only people benefiting from this economy are the people
in the top 1%, and I may be.. well, I'm being shafted.” That
is the stuff that drives American politics, and we're seeing now
inequality back on the political agenda.
GEORGE NEGUS: Professor, if our own Prime Minister, John
Howard, is
re-elected and he found himself early in 2009 dealing with a Democrat
in the White House, whether it was Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton, how
do you think he'd go?
ROBERT REICH: Well, look, your Prime Minister has supported
George Bush
in Iraq and he is known as a very, well, kind of right-of-centre
politician, and right-of-centre administration. America, which has been
drifting to the right for 25 years, is now beginning to drift back to
the left. So I would say, in all likelihood, we are going to have a
Democratic president next time around. That's what all the polls show
in the United States. It would be lovely if there were a Labour prime
minister here in Australia. But I'm not going to offer any political
views. I will be very non-partisan on Australian television.
GEORGE NEGUS: Please don't! Thanks. Great to talk to you,
professor. To
say the least, we live in interesting times right now, no matter which
side of the Pacific we live on.
ROBERT REICH: That is absolutely true. Thank you, George.