NAOMI WOLF INTERVIEW - Wednesday 12th March, 2008
Remember Naomi Wolf, the celebrity feminist and social critic
from the US? Remember her? How could you forget her! She was the author
of that best-selling tome 'The Beauty Myth'. In her latest literary
incarnation, the perpetually controversial Ms Wolf has been busy
crisscrossing the US calling for a citizen's revolt against what she
calls the "fascist shift" in her George W. Bush-led country. Her
radical views have led to an almost total media blackout of her book,
apocalyptically entitled 'The End of America'. Prior to her recent trip
down-under for the Perth Writers' Festival, we chatted, via satellite,
from New York.
GEORGE NEGUS: Naomi, thanks for joining us. I'm wondering
whether at
the moment you're feeling just a little schizoid, because your book has
been hailed on the one hand as the most valuable political book of the
year, yet others have canned you and the book as righteous paranoia and
the rantings of a wild extremist or even an unhinged leftie.
NAOMI WOLF, AUTHOR, “THE END OF AMERICA”:
Right,
well, I pretty much haven't heard the latter criticism for most of the
reception of the book here in the United States. Here in the United
States there has been pretty much a mainstream media blackout about the
book. I haven't had a single print review. It's been much discussed on
the Internet and on radio, interestingly, so what I have heard is that
people in the United States don't see this as paranoia at all, by and
large. People in the US across the political spectrum understand that
we really are in a very fragile situation if the erosion of our checks
and balances and the systemic assault on the rule of law continues.
GEORGE NEGUS: 'The End of America', that's one hell of a
title, if I
could say. Is that an attention-getter or are you seriously suggesting
that we're looking at the end of the United States as we know it?
NAOMI WOLF: Well, of course I'm serious. If what you're saying
is do I
mean the land mass or the nation state is going to disappear, of course
not. If by America we mean, for instance, the system of checks and
balances that the founders put in place, it's gone already, because I
don't know if you have been following this in Australia, but Congress
just passed a law and the President is not supposed to be a dictator in
the US and the President told Congress, "I'm just going to ignore three
key aspects of this law that you passed."
GEORGE NEGUS: But somebody said, Naomi Wolf, whose work we
have admired
for so long, on this occasion, why shouldn't we just write her off as a
serial sensationalist, a notoriety seeker who's trying to scare the
hell out of people because she needs another bestseller. Cynical as
that.
NAOMI WOLF: Yeah, they're welcome to say whatever they like.
I'm not
making a rhetorical argument, I'm simply saying this is what you see
would-be dictators have done since the end of the '20s in Europe this
is the blueprint that would-be dictators the 10 steps would-be
dictators on the left to right always follow you know, you invoke a
terrifying internal and external threat, you create secret prisons, you
start to torture people, you create a surveillance apparatus, right
through the list.
GEORGE NEGUS: Naomi, let us say for the sake of our discussion
that
you're right. Let's assume you are right. Your concerns about the
erosion of freedom have been raised by others, probably not as
sensationally as you have, but raised.
NAOMI WOLF: Excuse me, it's not sensational. Yeah.
GEORGE NEGUS: Well, to some people it would be, I guess is the
point.
NAOMI WOLF: OK.
GEORGE NEGUS: But to take our discussion to the next level,
let's
assume that you're right. So what do we do about it? Are we talking
about armed rebellion, are we talking about taking to the streets, a
citizens' revolt, a bloggers' revolt or what?
NAOMI WOLF: Right, well, what we've done is what the founders
called on
us to do. The founders counted on each of us, not a political class or
a pundit class to be the guardians of liberty. I co-founded with a
number of other activists an organisation called the American Freedom
Campaign, which is exactly what history shows is necessary at a time
like this. It is driving a grassroots democracy movement in the US.
We've now got 5 million members in partner organisations and we're also
driving a legislative agenda through Congress from restore habeas
corpus, to end torture, end warrentless wire-tapping, protect
journalists from being prosecuted under the Espionage Act, and we're
also driving..
GEORGE NEGUS: But you say that time is running out. I'm
wondering if it
hasn't run out already, because the book is obviously predicated on the
actions of the Bush Government and its reaction to September 11, but
you also write off a change in government in Washington. You don't
really believe that Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama could make any
difference, it seems.
NAOMI WOLF: Respectfully, I have to say you're really
distorting what I
said. What I said is that the founders knew that changing parties, as
long as you release the constraints on the checks and balances that
they put a place, is going to corrupt any leader, any leader, history
shows, who has absolute power, the power to intimidate the opposition,
to lock people up for three years in a navy brig, which the President
has said now any United States president has the right to do for three
years without being able to contact lawyers or see their families. It
doesn't matter if a Democrat or a Republican is in office. If they
inherit these powers it's dangerous. History shows that. And I'd be
delighted if a responsible executive was elected who restored the
checks and balances and the restraints that the founders put in place.
GEORGE NEGUS: Well, if that's the case, who would you like to
see in
the White House?
NAOMI WOLF: Personally I have become an Obama supporter,
because I
think he's really harnessing this grassroots energy, this awakening
that Americans are having that, you know, everything they love about
their country really is at stake and that it's time to take back the
country and stand up for liberty. But I really want to stress that the
historical blueprint shows that the months leading up to an election in
a closing society can be very dangerous.
GEORGE NEGUS: What I would like to ask about is the reaction
from your
supporters. I mean, given the success of 'The Beauty Myth', wouldn't
your audience find it strange that Naomi Wolf, of all people, is not
supporting Hillary Clinton?
NAOMI WOLF: You know, they can say whatever they like. I mean,
like
every American, you know, I'm watching this election, I'm watching the
candidates present their case and there's a long time between now and
November, but what I'm really worried about is having a transparent
election, an accountable election, for whoever the frontrunner is. I
think there are great risks and threats right now to the prospect of a
full, free election, unless the American people rise up and insist, for
instance as they did in California, on accountability, getting rid of
the Diebold machines, the corrupted, electronic machines.
GEORGE NEGUS: Naomi, I have to admit I'm still a bit confused
about how
this "rising up" that you call it is done. I mean, what you mean by
rising up?
NAOMI WOLF: By rising up in terms of the election, there are
many
groups that are becoming very powerful right now that are focused on
scrutinising the vote and throwing out the voting machines that are
corrupted, that have been corrupted by major donors to the Republicans,
for example. So that's the kind of citizen activism, scrutiny of the
election, attention, you know, calling representatives' attention to
the election process. And also awareness on the part of Americans that
in a closing society things like the purging of the US attorneys, which
the White House has deleted 10,000 e-mails so that Congress can't
scrutinise that potential scandal, that's the kind of thing in a
closing society every despot does. Goebbels purged the attorneys and
lawyers in April of 1933 so that they could continue to have elections,
to have a judiciary, but they knew that the outcome was always going to
be in their favour. Despots are always doing that, Putin's doing that,
in Pakistan they tried to do that.
GEORGE NEGUS: Did you really feel it was necessary to liken
the current
American leadership on either side to people like Mussolini and Stalin
and Hitler?
NAOMI WOLF: I'm not saying rhetorically Bush is like
Mussolini, Bush is
like Hitler. If you look at the early years of how Mussolini came to
power in a pluralistic, representative democracy, how Hitler came to
power in a pluralistic, representative parliamentary democracy, they
used certain tactics systematically to subvert the rule of law and to
dismantle the constitution. And what I'm doing is laying those tactics
side-by-side with very similar tactics that we're seeing right now and
asking readers to draw their own conclusions about whether there's
cause for concern..
GEORGE NEGUS: But you say you cannot get reviewed in America,
your
book's not getting reviewed. You feel as though you're blacklisted and
targeted. Do you think people are saying, "She has got a point here,
but maybe she has gone too far"?
NAOMI WOLF: Well, not in my own country, I have to say. It
seems like a
very faraway conversation in a way.
GEORGE NEGUS: But no reviews, nobody wants to review the book,
from
what you're saying.
NAOMI WOLF: No reviews whatsoever, that is right.
GEORGE NEGUS: Why is that?
NAOMI WOLF: I'll get to that in a minute, but wherever I go I
am
speaking to packed audiences that I have never spoken to before of
people across the political spectrum who are aware, as Americans, that
there are very disturbing things happening. And frankly, since it is my
own country that has to restore democracy and the rule of law, I really
do not care if critics, you know, far away who aren't experiencing
these threats, these dangers, think that there is a rhetorical problem.
Again, people who have read the book don't there's a rhetorical
problem.
GEORGE NEGUS: I say, I don't think raising these points of
conjecture
are suggesting that we don't think you should be listened to.
NAOMI WOLF: Well, let me stress, yeah, thank you, let me
stress that
the call of warning I'm making is not just about the US, it's
international. And the international community doesn't want an America
unconstrained by the rule of law at home. It does not serve anyone.
GEORGE NEGUS: Whatever else, you've certainly got everyone's
attention.
Good to talk to you.
NAOMI WOLF: You too. Thank you.