REBIYA KADEER INTERVIEW - Wednesday 5th March, 2008
Rebiya Kadeer is being feted for some years as the mother of
the Uyghur people, a little-known Muslim minority living in the far
north-west of China. With China right in the global spotlight this
year, as it prepares for the Beijing Olympics, Ms Kadeer, ex-laundress
turned millionaire businesswoman turned enemy of the Chinese Government
was recently here in Australia, as she put it, "to raise awareness of
the plight of her people," at the hands of Chinese authorities. For its
part, the Chinese Government has described Rebiya Kadeer as a
separatist who has colluded with terrorists and endangered state
security. George Negus caught up with her in Sydney.
GEORGE NEGUS:It might be hard to accept, but this handsome woman has
been branded
'public enemy number one' of the Chinese Government. Now 61, Rebiya
Kadeer has made it her life's work to alert the world to the suffering
of her people, the Uyghurs, and that's got Beijing well and truly
offside and landed her with a 6-year jail term.
REBIYA KADEER, WORLD UYGHUR CONGRESS (Translation): I can talk
about
the suffering of the Uyghur people for many hours, because it is
all-encompassing, it is systematic, and it is widespread but time is
limited so I will shorten my speech.
Here in Australia for 10 days, the mother of 11 has been
working the
corridors of power in Canberra, Adelaide and Sydney. By way of
background the remote Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region of China is
bang up against China's frontier with Central Asia. The Uyghurs prefer
to call their homeland, located along the historic Silk Road, East
Turkistan. It was once a thriving centre of Asian Muslim art and
learning. In 1949, come Mao's Revolution, the Chinese annexed the
region. Since then, Xinjiang's deserts have been used for nuclear
testing and its more fertile land populated by the Han, the majority
Chinese. In the process, its vast oil, gas and coal reserves have been
exploited to fuel China's hungry economy.
CROWD: What do we want? Freedom! When do we want it? Now!
Around 2,000 Uyghur self-exiles are living here in Australia,
some of
whom had been jailed and tortured back in Xinjiang. Many still have
family members languishing in Chinese prisons.
REBIYA KADEER, (Translation): We are given our freedom and the
right to
retain our culture when we come to this country. Because of this
freedom we can protest now. No one has imprisoned us here. No one has
executed us. This is freedom! You can shout out freely. In these
democratic countries, don’t forget the mothers who wept tears
of blood, the young people who are imprisoned, the children whose
fathers were executed, the men who were executed after trials without
lawyers, and all the men given life sentences after trials without
lawyers. I hope you will continue to fight for those people in a
peaceful and democratic way within world democracies and I hope that
one day we will be free.
GEORGE NEGUS: We know about the oppression of the Tibetan
people. We
hear a lot about that. But we don't really hear anything about the
oppression of your people, and the plight that their in, and why you
are travelling the world speaking on their behalf to gain their
autonomy and independence from the Chinese. Why do you think your
people are ignored?
REBIYA KADEER, (Translation): Because the Dalai Lama escaped
from China
into a third country after the Chinese communist occupation. Seven of
our political leaders died in the so-called plane crash. The soviets
helped and so our political leaders were killed. We have been sealed
off from the outside world. Not even a bird can fly out of our area. So
our situation is the same as the Tibetans but the international
community is not aware of us.
GEORGE NEGUS: Do you really think the Chinese will change
their
position, because they have growing power in the world? Why do you
think they've been able to get away with oppressing your people in the
way they have for 50 years?
REBIYA KADEER, (Translation): First we have huge natural
resources in
the country. So the Chinese government wants to create the
pre-conditions of peaceful co-existence while eliminating the Uyghurs.
They want to eliminate Uyghur culture. They reduce Uyghurs to poverty
so they can’t lead normal lives. They destroy our beliefs and
push us into immorality. They harass, jail and execute Uyghur writers
and intellectuals who speak or write anything against the Chinese
Government. They call them Separatists or terrorists and gradually
eliminate them.
GEORGE NEGUS: Really, eliminate? How would they eliminate them?
REBIYA KADEER, (Translation): They want to eliminate Uyghur
culture.
They reduce Uyghurs to poverty so they can’t lead normal
lives. They destroy our beliefs and push us into immorality. They
harass, jail and execute Uyghur writers and intellectuals who speak or
write anything against the Chinese Government. They call them
Separatists or terrorists and gradually eliminate them.
GEORGE NEGUS: Including you Rebiya? You were imprisoned for
speaking
out against the Chinese?
REBIYA KADEER, (Translation): Of course. That is how China has
eliminated other Uyghurs.
GEORGE NEGUS: And your two sons are still in prison?
REBIYA KADEER, (Translation): Yes, my two sons were imprisoned
in
retaliation for my activities because China is afraid that the Uyghur
problem will become international like the Tibetan problem.
GEORGE NEGUS: Why did things change? Why did your relationship
with the
Chinese authorities change so dramatically as I said, going from being
a member of their parliament, being a successful businessperson within
their system, to now being a public enemy, a political enemy, a
dangerous person.
REBIYA KADEER, (Translation): The relationship changed when I
was in
parliament. I tried to work within the system, I advocated freedom for
my people, then the Chinese Government saw me as an enemy.
Dictatorships hate anyone who promotes democracy.
GEORGE NEGUS: Are you a Muslim?
REBIYA KADEER, (Translation): Yes.
GEORGE NEGUS: I imagine that after September 11, and the
impact that
had on the US, and the rest of the world, that maybe the anti-Islamic
aspect of this argument became worse. Was it worse for the Uyghurs
after September 11 because you're Muslim?
REBIYA KADEER, (Translation): The Chinese government was very
pleased
with 9/11 and used it to justify further crackdowns on the Uyghurs,
naming every Uyghur unhappy with the regime as a terrorist. They
provoke the Uyghurs to arm themselves and then call them terrorists.
The Chinese try to create this illusion of Uyghur terrorism with severe
policies like forced labour. They are taking Uyghur girls from every
family and I think this is a war crime. They took 240,000 girls aged
from 14 to 25 from just one area. They banned our language, took our
young women, destroyed our farming economy. Why did they do this? They
did this to anger the Uyghur people and forced them to arm themselves
against the regime so that they can easily call them terrorists.
GEORGE NEGUS: Can we say that, it would appear that the world
has got
nowhere in convincing the Chinese to give Tibet it’s
independence, so if the whole Tibetan compaign has failed, why is the
Uyghur campaign going to be any more successful?
REBIYA KADEER, (Translation): The international community must
hear our
voice, we believe the Tibetans will get their freedom. And we believe
the international community will support the Uyghurs as well as the
Tibetans. We will struggle against this regime until only one of us is
left standing.
GEORGE NEGUS: We’re talking a few months before the
Olympic
Games in Beijing. Do you think the rest of the world missed an
opportunity to place conditions on giving the Olympic Games to Beijing,
that maybe they should have placed conditions on China getting the
Olympic Games by saying, "Free Tibet, free the Uyghurs, really
implement human rights." Do you think we missed an opportunity?
REBIYA KADEER, (Translation): I think the world missed an
historic
opportunity. The international community, athletes and the Olympic
officials ignored the Uyghur and Tibetan human rights problems. So I
think they missed an important historic opportunity. This government
should be ashamed, it is shocking for us that in the lead-up to the
Olympics, China has confiscated all the Uyghurs’ passports.
Terrorism and the Olympics have given China an opportunity to crack
down on the Uyghurs. Have you heard of anything like this in the world?
Why do the world and the IOC ignore this?
GEORGE NEGUS: It's wonderful talking to you. I'm sorry that I
couldn't
speak your language, we could talk for much longer. Thank you.
Rebiya Kadeer. As you'd expect, we approached the Chinese embassy in
Canberra for a response to her claims. In an email reply, they told us
they considered her to be "an exiled separatist who has colluded with
terrorist forces in Eastern Turkistan." Also that Ms Kadeer had been
convicted by a Chinese court for endangering Chinese state security and
that her organisation, the World Uygher Congress, had been defined by
China as a terrorist organisation. The Embassy spokesperson said he
sincerely hoped that SBS "can seriously consider the show of such an
interview," by which we presume he meant that we should consider not
broadcasting our interview with Ms Kadeer. Meanwhile, we've invited the
Chinese ambassador to join us here on Dateline to discuss this and
other related matters and, hopefully, we'll be able to bring you that
interview in an upcoming program.